#1301

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

CrimsonNBlue wrote:

The Black Sox were in 1919 . . .

College players have been accused of point shaving in recent years:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/colle … e-1.313150

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n … l/2388831/

Arizona State and Northwestern were both involved in pretty significant point shaving scandals in the late 1990s as well.

#1302

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

Right. So I just don't see point shaving all of the sudden becoming more prevalent if other states allow legalized sports gambling.  Gambling and point shaving have been going on forever, and anyone with the ability to access players and large sums of money to bribe and gamble were not being slowed down by the fact that sports gambling was state-sanctioned in only Nevada.




"...in my opinion, the most prestigious chair in all of college basketball." -Bill Self

#1303

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

The kinds of people who would influence point shaving aren't the kind of people who would be waiting for it to be legal for them to bet at places like casinos and racetracks....plus if you're in deep enough to have that kind of scheme and influence you'd have already been placing bets legally 1 way or another....

although I could see players coming up with their own schemes (with people in their circle) if it becomes easy for those people to place bets.

Last edited by Illinoisjayhawk (May 14 2018 1:39 pm)

#1304

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

twocoach wrote:
tmcats wrote:

betting has been legal for a long time.  thus, this decision will have zero effect on anything other than state coffers and perhaps street corner bookies.

"After the ruling, Gov. Pete Ricketts said that despite Nebraska joining the lawsuit as a matter of principle, sports betting is still illegal in the state and there are no plans to change that."

http://www.omaha.com/news/nebraska/no-p … 9c2d6.html

So no, betting has not been legal for a long time. The 1992 Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act barred state-authorized sports gambling and made Nevada the only state where a person could wager on the results of a single game.

the whole college sports scene has been built around the spread for years.  gameday has a bookmaker on their show.  people have gone to vegas for years to bet on the college game.  it's clearly been legal for decades.  it will now just be broadened to places like grand island and norfolk.




Stop waving our wheat!

#1305

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

CrimsonNBlue wrote:

Right. So I just don't see point shaving all of the sudden becoming more prevalent if other states allow legalized sports gambling.  Gambling and point shaving have been going on forever, and anyone with the ability to access players and large sums of money to bribe and gamble were not being slowed down by the fact that sports gambling was state-sanctioned in only Nevada.

Do you feel that the amount of sports gambling will increase now that additional states will be legalizing it? I do. I would visit a sports book if it was close and legal. If the number of people participating in sports gambling goes up, it is inevitable that the number of players being coerced to participate in illegal acts to fix sports games will also go up. It's pretty rare right so an increase may still be pretty minimal. We'll see. Since Nebraska is the last to do anything related to "immoral acts" I am sure I will have to drive over to Council Bluffs, IA to visit a sports book but that's still better than having to visit Vegas.

#1306

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

This could also potentially lead to better AP polls.  As fans/writers become more aware of the spreads, inevitably more weight will be given to the books power rankings of teams, which closely match KenPom and are both better indicators of the quality of teams.




"...in my opinion, the most prestigious chair in all of college basketball." -Bill Self

#1307

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

Illinoisjayhawk wrote:

The kinds of people who would influence point shaving aren't the kind of people who would be waiting for it to be legal for them to bet at places like casinos and racetracks....plus if you're in deep enough to have that kind of scheme and influence you'd have already been placing bets legally 1 way or another....

although I could see players coming up with their own schemes (with people in their circle) if it becomes easy for those people to place bets.

Never underestimate the desire of people to make quick money. There are lots of people who have "in's" with players (or think they do) who may start to try to leverage that access for their own profit.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't think that the danger of it is enough that this isn't a good idea. But I fully expect to see the number of incidents where point shaving is done or at least attempted to increase.

#1308

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

CrimsonNBlue wrote:

This could also potentially lead to better AP polls.  As fans/writers become more aware of the spreads, inevitably more weight will be given to the books power rankings of teams, which closely match KenPom and are both better indicators of the quality of teams.

Sports book managers should create their own Top 25 poll just as we have an AP and a Coaches poll today. Odds are it would be more accurate of the true best 25 teams in the sport.

#1309

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

twocoach wrote:
CrimsonNBlue wrote:

Right. So I just don't see point shaving all of the sudden becoming more prevalent if other states allow legalized sports gambling.  Gambling and point shaving have been going on forever, and anyone with the ability to access players and large sums of money to bribe and gamble were not being slowed down by the fact that sports gambling was state-sanctioned in only Nevada.

Do you feel that the amount of sports gambling will increase now that additional states will be legalizing it? I do. I would visit a sports book if it was close and legal. If the number of people participating in sports gambling goes up, it is inevitable that the number of players being coerced to participate in illegal acts to fix sports games will also go up. It's pretty rare right so an increase may still be pretty minimal. We'll see. Since Nebraska is the last to do anything related to "immoral acts" I am sure I will have to drive over to Council Bluffs, IA to visit a sports book but that's still better than having to visit Vegas.

I think an argument could be made that sports betting now being by the book (no pun intended) across the country will hurt the underground bookie, and thus, lead to less desire of coercing the athletes.  Again, the type of people that can have that kind of influence were not and are not concerned with silly things like laws.  The money being gambled by point shaving isn't being bet at the Wynn.  Or, it at least goes through so many channels that if it is legally bet, the Vegas-only federal law was not a hindrance.

Sure, you might have more Sigma Chi dudes going up to Quentin Grimes on campus telling him he'll get a cut of his $100 bet, but for the most part, these laws aren't affecting people that can actually offer an athlete a sum of money that would be worth screwing over their team, school and fans. Not to mention, themselves, considering point shaving is a serious crime.

Last edited by CrimsonNBlue (May 14 2018 2:43 pm)




"...in my opinion, the most prestigious chair in all of college basketball." -Bill Self

#1310

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

tmcats wrote:
twocoach wrote:
tmcats wrote:

betting has been legal for a long time.  thus, this decision will have zero effect on anything other than state coffers and perhaps street corner bookies.

"After the ruling, Gov. Pete Ricketts said that despite Nebraska joining the lawsuit as a matter of principle, sports betting is still illegal in the state and there are no plans to change that."

http://www.omaha.com/news/nebraska/no-p … 9c2d6.html

So no, betting has not been legal for a long time. The 1992 Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act barred state-authorized sports gambling and made Nevada the only state where a person could wager on the results of a single game.

the whole college sports scene has been built around the spread for years.  gameday has a bookmaker on their show.  people have gone to vegas for years to bet on the college game.  it's clearly been legal for decades.  it will now just be broadened to places like grand island and norfolk.

Sorry, but the notion that it will have "zero effect on anything other than state coffers and perhaps street corner bookies" is silly. It absolutely will result in more people betting on sports that do not bet today. I personally have never placed a bet in Vegas nor have I ever placed a bet online or with a bookie. And I will be going to a sports book if one opens in my vicinity. If it's legal, it would be fun but since I work at a major financial institution, it being illegal where I live keeps me from betting with a bookie. My employer would be my former employer if I were arrested for illegal gambling.

#1311

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

#1312

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

I only gamble on WWE matches because there's no way anyone could fix one of those.




Sit down, be humble.

*Voted Greatest Poster on kusports.net - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018

#1313

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

PhDhawk wrote:

I only gamble on WWE matches because there's no way anyone could fix one of those.

Monday night Raw in a few hours!

#1314

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

CrimsonNBlue wrote:
twocoach wrote:
CrimsonNBlue wrote:

Right. So I just don't see point shaving all of the sudden becoming more prevalent if other states allow legalized sports gambling.  Gambling and point shaving have been going on forever, and anyone with the ability to access players and large sums of money to bribe and gamble were not being slowed down by the fact that sports gambling was state-sanctioned in only Nevada.

Do you feel that the amount of sports gambling will increase now that additional states will be legalizing it? I do. I would visit a sports book if it was close and legal. If the number of people participating in sports gambling goes up, it is inevitable that the number of players being coerced to participate in illegal acts to fix sports games will also go up. It's pretty rare right so an increase may still be pretty minimal. We'll see. Since Nebraska is the last to do anything related to "immoral acts" I am sure I will have to drive over to Council Bluffs, IA to visit a sports book but that's still better than having to visit Vegas.

I think an argument could be made that sports betting now being by the book (no pun intended) across the country will hurt the underground bookie, and thus, lead to less desire of coercing the athletes.  Again, the type of people that can have that kind of influence were not and are not concerned with silly things like laws.  The money being gambled by point shaving isn't being bet at the Wynn.  Or, it at least goes through so many channels that if it is legally bet, the Vegas-only federal law was not a hindrance.

Sure, you might have more Sigma Chi dudes going up to Quentin Grimes on campus telling him he'll get a cut of his $100 bet, but for the most part, these laws aren't affecting people that can actually offer an athlete a sum of money that would be worth screwing over their team, school and fans. Not to mention, themselves, considering point shaving is a serious crime.

And an actual one, for a change.




"Walking on the beach this morning, doing a little thinking when I saw footprints in the sand.  Reminded me of the poem Footprints in the Sand."  John Vincent Calipari, 8/14/14

#1315

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

PhDhawk wrote:

I only gamble on WWE matches because there's no way anyone could fix one of those.

I used to play ESPN Streak for the Cash until I saw a WWE match was one of the events.

#1316

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

For love of the game.

Former Louisville head coach Rick Pitino said representatives from Adidas met with him to discuss ways to keep 2018 recruit Romeo Langford from youth basketball leagues sponsored by Nike and Under Armour.

"The way they phrased it, it was whoever [shoe company] was going to pay [Langford's dad's] AAU program the most money, gets it," Pitino said in an interview with Will Hobson of the Washington Post.

Langford, who is 247Sports' sixth-ranked recruit in the 2018 class, dropped Louisville from his list of potential schools last September after the school was implicated in the FBI's investigation into corruption in college basketball.

On April 30, Langford verbally committed to Indiana after considering Vanderbilt and Kansas. Indiana, Kansas and Louisville all have apparel deals with Adidas.

Hobson noted a few days after a January 2017 meeting with Pitino that Adidas added a new AAU team, Twenty Two Vision, in the Gauntlet Gold Division with Langford as a featured player.

"That’s the way that world works," Pitino said. "Which is completely legal, by the way."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2776 … om-nike-ua




"...in my opinion, the most prestigious chair in all of college basketball." -Bill Self

#1317

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

CrimsonNBlue wrote:

For love of the game.

Former Louisville head coach Rick Pitino said representatives from Adidas met with him to discuss ways to keep 2018 recruit Romeo Langford from youth basketball leagues sponsored by Nike and Under Armour.

"The way they phrased it, it was whoever [shoe company] was going to pay [Langford's dad's] AAU program the most money, gets it," Pitino said in an interview with Will Hobson of the Washington Post.

Langford, who is 247Sports' sixth-ranked recruit in the 2018 class, dropped Louisville from his list of potential schools last September after the school was implicated in the FBI's investigation into corruption in college basketball.

On April 30, Langford verbally committed to Indiana after considering Vanderbilt and Kansas. Indiana, Kansas and Louisville all have apparel deals with Adidas.

Hobson noted a few days after a January 2017 meeting with Pitino that Adidas added a new AAU team, Twenty Two Vision, in the Gauntlet Gold Division with Langford as a featured player.

"That’s the way that world works," Pitino said. "Which is completely legal, by the way."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2776 … om-nike-ua

http://www.kusports.net/boards/viewtopi … 29#p653529




"Walking on the beach this morning, doing a little thinking when I saw footprints in the sand.  Reminded me of the poem Footprints in the Sand."  John Vincent Calipari, 8/14/14

#1318

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

man, for a second there I thought Romeo Langford really wuz motivated by some puritanical ideal of amateurism!

#1319

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.




Stop waving our wheat!

#1320

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

tmcats wrote:

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

/\

What's missing from that shape is what's missing in your post.

Last edited by twocoach (May 17 2018 9:37 am)

#1321

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

The more that leaks out about all this crap, the more I think the 100% right thing for the NCAA to do is to announce that every program in America gets a clean slate.

SO many programs, if not EVERY program, is, or has been involved in something that might be considered shady under the current rules.

Then the NCAA should announce that a series of conferences and meetings with tons of smart people all over the country will sit down and....hopefully...come to agreement on how the sport should be handled going forward.

What a mess.

Last edited by RonKelloggFan (May 17 2018 10:48 am)

#1322

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

RonKelloggFan wrote:

The more that leaks out about all this crap, the more I think the 100% right thing for the NCAA to do is to announce that every program in America gets a clean slate.

SO many programs, if not EVERY program, is, or has been involved in something that might be considered shady under the current rules.

Then the NCAA should announce that a series of conferences and meetings with tons of smart people all over the country will sit down and....hopefully...come to agreement on how the sport should be handled going forward.

What a mess.

I think it would be right to do this or something approaching it, and it would also be practical and pragmatic.  If you insist on chasing down every loose end here, all you're doing is prolonging the pain of the current news cycle and ultimately punishing whomever the wheel (pretty arbitrarily) lands on.

Of course, what will happen is a silent amnesty, where the NCAA just won't enforce/punish, except where it wants to, which it won't have to explain.




"Walking on the beach this morning, doing a little thinking when I saw footprints in the sand.  Reminded me of the poem Footprints in the Sand."  John Vincent Calipari, 8/14/14

#1323

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

Of course we want a clean slate. We've got a shit ton to lose if they start vacating stuff. I doubt the irrelevant schools (crappy mid majors etc) want to wipe the power programs slate clean for "cheating". No telling what the NCAA will do. But my guess is that they're going to vacate stuff they can prove. The Rice commission findings/comments (a lot doubling down on their current stance) didn't make me feel confident they're going to blame themselves for this.

#1324

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

Sure I know it takes a bite out of all time records and stuff, but am I the only one who thinks the whole vacating records thing makes the NCAA more than anyone else look like a bunch of loosers?

#1325

Re: FBI Probe could affect top coaches, players and half of top 16 seeds

Pot meet Kettle...Tim Langford, Mr. Clean?

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/s … 615426002/




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